The difference

DeSade · Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 19:36 Post subject: The difference

This may be a daft point but...

To play a game of CTF you need both attack and defence, yes?
But if someone defends his or her flag by staying in one place, i.e. the base, this is classed as camping. So we have two teams of attacking forces and no defence, unless or course the enemy happens to end up in your sights.

So my question to the group is,

Would it not make sense for "camping" in it's defensive stature to be allowed?

I would say don't do it in your enemy's base, it just isn't fair not to let them have a starting chance. Do it at "home" by all means save your flag.

To close I would like to quote the rules of another UT group

DanBennett · Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 19:39 Post subject:

Some people find it as a skill...
Personally, it isnt, and its pathetic if you stop the fun for other people.

DeSade · Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 20:38 Post subject:

Yes I agree that some things are not skillful spawn killing for example. There is however skill in defense, you still have to dodge weave to avoid being shot, and you still have to line up your sights at the end of the day, it's not like you're sat there with a redeemer or suchlike.

Don't forget both teams would be doing it, it's unlikely that you would get 14 players all defending at once.

Mentor · Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 20:48 Post subject:

apart from one case (which i don't wanna discuss now), I never gave a straight defender a warning, kick or ban for camping or whatsoever.
Defending <> Camping.

You can however be camping AND defending, and that's forbidden to me.
to be honest, I think defending is not necessary on a server where you play 7 vs 7, but that's my opinion. Sometimes it's really needed. But some maps have so many respawners in base (woot, niven, moonrun, ...) that you have respawning defenders all over the place. Put there a full-time defender, and the map gets all boring, making it impossible to cap. If both teams do this, a 0-0 score is coming up.

But some players decide not to use that tactic. It is their right, and I will not interfere there (as long as they defend FAIR). Fair that is: give the attacker the same chanve of killing you as you have to kill him. Just my opinion.

Defending is allowed (but in my eyes not needed), camping isn't. Spawnkilling is lame and is forbidden too. That is not one sudden spawnkill. But to camp the spawnpoints is forbidden (can be pulled back to as referred higher: CAMPING)

I know some skilled defenders are called campers unrightly, and indeed, ppl should think if it's just because they are a sore loser, or that they are really being camped. Let's hope that's where we trustees try to be where we need to be.

DanBennett · Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 20:55 Post subject:

IMO Defending IS needed. It does not matter wether it is a public server or not. You work as a team.

I know that most the time this is not the case, people just wanna run the hoff about and cap cap cap cap cap. This just really gets boring.

I aggree that people who do "Defend" also "camp" which is not allowed. Defenders of the base imo should walk around the base checking all ways of getting in whilst still leaving an area for the enemy to get in, Then this is not camping, and makes it much better gameplay. So why don't anyone do it? :/

However, DM Maps, which imo should not be on, do NOT need defenders (w00t for example) as this is basically DM and You just can not defend at all without "camping" as all you are doing is watching people fly into your base to get the flag. All there is on these maps is shooting left right and centre giving no gameplay or fun (Well ok its funny if you miss the jump pads and die...). These "DM" maps should be removed as this is not the correct type of gameplay, and also gives people "Hyperactivity" on the game for the next map which may not be a "DM" map, which can make them "LAME".

McTerry · Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 22:00 Post subject:

Defenders rules Razz

But ppl will still hate me becouse of my so called "skillz". Wink

withnail · Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 02:00 Post subject:

Mentor thats the most sense ive heard spoken in a long while(well typed) Very Happy

[i4g]Medic · Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 07:40 Post subject:

I'll just add that, IMHO, defending is at least needed when someone of your team has the enemy flag.
It is very frustrating to arrive with the enemy flag in your base which is full of enemy and nobody from your own team.

Soleil · Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 08:44 Post subject:

I think its not just the defending and the style you do it that makes it, it is also the balance of attacking and defending. I would die bored defending a whole game, I usually steady switch between attack and defense, as defense is needed. In this case i wont def only and i have the fun of attacking.

As been said, in a way defense is also a part of teamplay. But i wont agree with def-only-players.

[i4g]Z · Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:01 Post subject:

I agree with Mentor, and Medic has a point, that alot of players ignore. That happens alot on all servers, not only here but elsewhere too. Its really depressing when you get the flag, make a successfull flag run, get into your base and realize that noone followed you to give backup, and the base is full with enemies, just waiting for you. Happens alot on Beholder and Bloody Destiny.

But another thing I would like to point out is... A deffer should at all times be trying to stop the attacker before the flag get, and not be waiting to kill the enemey after the flag get!!! I've seen serveral players do this constantly (no names here, they have been or will be, warned/kicked/banned) All Caves maps are an example... players waiting for the flag get before shooting at the EFC instead of shooting the attacker before he gets anywhere near the flag. This is beyond all fairness and one of the lameest way to play CTF imho. Up front deffing is the way to do it... then both deffer and attacker has the chance to succeed... may the better player take the point/frag/cake! Wink

Z

cN|iNFiN1TY- · Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:22 Post subject:

freelance is the best to play imo, when your teammate has the flag, you clear out the base, when he doesnt have the flag.. you attack.. caves for example.. i return most of the time to my base when my teammate has the flag to clear it out for a clean cap, wich can fruststrate even trustees who cant enter my base claiming i baselame? lol when in basics im just playing iCTF with a team spirit.

Flamingo · Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:50 Post subject:

to defend or not to defend,that is the question,eh?
As most of you know,im a defender at heart,tho i do try to attack at times.I really like to partake in the discussion goin on as it is close to my heart,gamewise,and i do agree to an extent with Mentor,Medic and Z-Rox,good points made by all of you.
As a defender you are bound to get all the shit from yer fellow players,especially if you do a good job,fairly played or not.
What i do as a def,is that i check the entrances to my own base,if FC is near,i support him/her,but IF there are more than one defender i tend to leave my station and go on attack instead,cos having yer base overrun with defenders is not really necessary eh? Another thing you can do too is to give a relic to the FC.
And surely ,as said in previous posts,the map being played is the reason to defend or not.
To defend properly is an art Wink

but rest assured,if yer into defending you better be into maschochism (spellcheck) as well,cos yer bound to be put down. Cool

well,joke or not,i love defending,no matter what some players might say,but its really sad when you get accused of being lame,a camper,loser etc when u def by yerself and you do a good job and protect yer flag most of the times.

My two cents.

Cheers!

McTerry · Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:04 Post subject:

Calcul · Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:34 Post subject:

All has been said, I'll just add that sometimes it is more judicious to contain enemy attackers in your base but not kill them immediately in order to let their base the most empty possible...

in some maps like Niven by example.

SAFeSTeR · Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 04:23 Post subject:

A good defender will 'patrol' their own base, not just set their sightz on their flag or an entrance to their base + also (IMO) they should be tha onez who go after tha EFC, but that is mainly how it is played in our clan warz.

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