Would you help us to correct the rating of the BT maps?

`Chr1st-BLS · Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 16:13 Post subject:

As John The Friendly Ghost kindly invited us to share our opinions on the existing ratings (can't whine without posting suggestions - gotta agree with you there Wink

) here are some of my ideas. Most of them I made a while back when I was still active, so I haven't double-checked their current rating.

These are just some of my thoughts, feel free to elaborate.

Stilongs501 - 8 - long map with complex sequences
(Ki)Belalou][ - 7 (I'm not too good at bouncing)
(Ki)Belalou - Possibly 10, but I'm not too sure on this one. I found it pretty hard.
(ow)MonsterMadness - 10 - very long with some places being very punishing due to the randomness of monsters
CONSTRUKT - 8
(L)Weird - 4 (endbounce)
TheFragunitBT2 - 3
(CYA)UnderWorld - 8? Some parts that are pushed to the limit
Reincarnation - 6 - fairly difficult honestly
Deimos - 7? Not too sure on this one anymore
Halcyon - 6 Again not too sure on this one, it's been a long time since I made this
TTFAF-forCrackSpider - 6
Krank - 5 - some NWBT parts that are pretty hard
(RSK)LavaDeath - 6 - punishing jumps and dodges at the end.
+(CN)Vesuvio - 4 - tricky ending
Aklabash - 4 - quite long
Lava-Tea-Party - 4 - quite long, tho Ozma
Affliction - 5
Approach - 6
Frozt - 8
Vault - Maybe 9, not too sure
Escapade! - 7, can't remember too well
Subway - 8
Anghellic - 8 - went from 10 to 7, bit too drastic imo, last fall difficult
Glyceryl - 6
RideTheMagicDonkey - 5/6 - hard to rate
TheEscape - 4
26 - 8
(Flea)Crucifier - 6
(CN)DejaVu - 8
Scenes - 7
Abomination - 9 - not too sure, but given its length and the location of the difficult parts, i'd rate it 9 again
(bar)DinG - 7, i'd rate it back to 7 again, given its length
(K)Torment - 6
(UTW)Insignia - 8 - not too sure anymore
(ET)NoobTastic-EZ - 5 - quite a long map
TabulaRasa - 2 - the rocketboost at the end caused quite some troubles for players
Abydos - 8 - I still like to think of this map as an 8. After some practice it may get a bit easier, but it takes a while. And having to practice something longer than other maps is part of its difficulty imo.
(Ki'Ca)Fockenbitch - 8
(CN)ReCap - 8 - same rating as DejaVu
+(CN)Bunnycula - 8
+(CN)Emma - 8
BuriedCityOfUr - 8 - i still find it relatively hard, but may be alone on this one Wink

(ow)Lightneng - 10 - as Pawel said
(SON)BunnyBlue - 6 - hard parts near the end
FloatingCastle - 8 - tough fall at the end and some difficult dodges
Limit - 6 - fairly complex map
SuddenDeath - 9 - i'd still rate this as a 9, with its difficult endroom and perfectly timed rooms in the middle
LastHour - 7 - what Pawel said. I suck at bouncing but would rate that 7 nonetheless

Agreeing with Bon that Ayumi may be less than 10, though definitely a 9.

Cheers guys!

p-a-w-e-l · Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 17:50 Post subject:

Stilongs501 - 8 <---------- done.
(L)Weird - 4 (endbounce) <---- 3 is alright I think
(CYA)UnderWorld - 8? Some parts that are pushed to the limit <---- 7 is alright.
Reincarnation - 6 - fairly difficult honestly <----- yes, considering tricky ending and kinda random boost at the spawn it could be 6
Deimos - 7? Not too sure on this one anymore <----- 6 is fine but could be 7 too
Halcyon - 6 <----- agree with but I thought Zanmato did this map Cool

Krank - 5 - some NWBT parts that are pretty hard <----- 4 is ok
Affliction - 5 <---- hard to say, both 4 and 5 suits well.
Vault - Maybe 9, not too sure <------- One very hard part with lifts and shots in the middle, could be 9 again but I agree with 8 too
RideTheMagicDonkey - 5/6 - hard to rate <---- as I said, 6 could easily fit
TheEscape - 4 <----- or even 5. Stupid crushers part somewhere
26 - 8 <---- disagreed, 7 better but kinda overplayed this map during cups so idk
(Flea)Crucifier - 6 <----- could be, but with trick in the tight sequence it's not so hard
Scenes - 7 <------ some parts are tricky, imo 8
(K)Torment - 6 <--------- nah, 5 is alright.
(UTW)Insignia - 8 <------ agree too, very difficult and nervestaking ending
(CN)ReCap - 8 <-------- both 7 and 8 fit so dunno
+(CN)Bunnycula - 8 <------yes, or even 7
BuriedCityOfUr - 8 - i still find it relatively hard, but may be alone on this one Wink

(ow)Lightneng - 10 <------ done
(SON)BunnyBlue - 6 - hard parts near the end <------ 5 is fine, rather short map
FloatingCastle - 8 <---- both 7 and 8 fit
Limit - 6 - fairly complex map <----- yes but once we know how it works its not bad, so this explains 5
SuddenDeath - 9 - disagree Laughing

Agreeing with Bon that Ayumi definitely a 9. <------ Rolling Eyes

For over 90 % of players its d10. We have seen few players struggling with this for hours.
Very hard sequences, can die in the end easily ( as many proved ), annoying start with slightly random bouncer and 4 nasty dodges.
Despite I capped this 2nd time I still think its 10.

Agree with others chr1st's suggestions. Wink

p-a-w-e-l · Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 17:54 Post subject:

Oh, also BT-Antecedent could be 7.

`Chr1st-BLS · Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 22:16 Post subject:

Agreed on Antecedent, I was thinking about that one too. Takes a lot of time to learn.

P.E.R.N · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 17:36 Post subject:

Ty for the long advice and feedback Chr1st and Pawel.

About Ayumi, sorry Bonkeh but since I lovered it to D9 , I have received some Antrax Boxes at home :p, Even if few peeps agreed about D9, it returns D10 until I will cap it :p:p:p

P.E.R.N · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 18:29 Post subject:

To answer to your question Chamberly :

Our rating is composed by the difficulty and the length of a map, for an "average" player (if you are highly skilled try to think as a "noob" :p).
The rate is an indication.

About the length it was 50 % of the ratins back it time, now it is around 20%.

The ratings are not reflecting the first time you encounter a map.
To be more preciss you should cap a map 3 times, and well knowing it after a good train on it.
When it comes to tricky maps, those who are too lazy to learn them properly will always think that the ratings are too low.

2000 maps and some are rated since ages and arent matching them actual difficulty. The purpose is to try to stay at max -1 +1 from the right and ideal rate. So ofc some updates are welcome and necessary, and we can't please all because we are all different facing a bt map, depending of our skills/facilities/weakness.

I will create a special post for D0 maps later.

}ElitE{Bon · Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:02 Post subject:

And Rebellion is a 10 as well? Dafuq.

`Chr1st-BLS · Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:37 Post subject:

Thank you PERN for the post on your approach to rating maps. I had no idea that less emphasis was placed on the length of a map nowadays (50% to 20%).

There is one thing that I think you can maybe take into consideration (and the source of disagreement on the lowering of some maps' ratings)

"The ratings are not reflecting the first time you encounter a map.
To be more preciss you should cap a map 3 times, and well knowing it after a good train on it."

Especially the part regarding having trained the map and having capped it 3 times and THEN rating it. Upon having trained a map and having capped it 3 times, you basically eliminate the difference in difficulty there exists between maps. Take Luxor/Foulness (D4) vs. let's say DecayedCollapse (D7) (this is merely an example of maps). If I rate after I have trained a map thoroughly and am able to cap it 3 times, there's hardly any difference. Then all 3 of them may as well be a D4. Once you know how to cap a map 3 times, you know the map, whether it's a D4 or a D7. (same applies to the 'average' player - I was an average player once too. Yes, I know I know.. hard to believe Wink

). There may still be a difference, but it's way less. I think you should also take into consideration the time one spends before he/she can actually cap it. That's part of what difficulty means (finding it hard to achieve something).

Think of learning how to play a piece of music; when people refer to some songs being difficult to play, they generally refer to the fact that it is hard to learn it. After playing it properly 3 times and finding the right pace/finger combinations (or whatever instrument you think of), it becomes habit and it's not difficult anymore, thereby downgrading the difficulty. I think the same applies to BT.

BT-Abydos (or Anghellic) is a fine example of this, as it takes quite some time to learn, but once you know the falls or the bouncer part, it's not - that - hard, yet one usually has to invest more time in this map, than in other R7 maps.

I would suggest rating it on a combination of learning and the trained version.

So far my monsterpost. Think about it Wink

Cheers

RoelerCoaster · Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:13 Post subject:

I think PERN means that you should indeed look at rating the map when you know how to cap it properly, but then take into account the time it takes to get to that point as well (unless I am completely mistaken here).

Rebellion is mainly a 10 because of length, combined with the fact that the three hardest rooms, where it is very easy to die, are completely at the end.
So it is very easy to fail when you are like 5-6 minutes into a run.
(also when you have practiced the map a lot).
I originally considered it a hard 9 (it was rated 9 before), but taking these things into account I raised it to D10 some years ago.

P.E.R.N · Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 20:04 Post subject:

Chr1st, your idea about the learning place of a map is interesting but at end can't be implemented.

Once again because we are all diiferent facing this point, some will need hours to train (like me in most maps) some will have quite no prob.

But subconsciousness we are using this too when we rate a map I think.

What is more effective is how we cap a map after a proper training/learning :
managing to cap or not, needing hours or not, sometime you will still suffer even after several caps.

A rating is a global point of view, not all those points are totally define, how you feel a map is important and will be different depending of each players.

A rating can't be perfect, thats sure, it is evolving, we just try to give an indication. Sometime you can feel the rates is arbitrary, sometime it is given too quickly, sometime those who help can be wrong too, but at least some rates are updated even after 12 years.

About the lowering of the map's lenght part (from 50% of the rating to a quarter lets say) it is because at begin the players ranks were the main point on i4g (not the cap time). Those ranks were given/running for each month and were directly an addition of all maps cap.
you cap a D5 you have 5 pts, so of course gaining 5 pts with two balanced difficulty maps but one in 2 mn and one in 5 mn is totally different.

Nowaydays those ranks are weekly and lost them prevalence by a lot.

`Chr1st-BLS · Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 20:47 Post subject:

Alright, appreciate the reply.

Seeing how you are the person that is primarily rating the maps, you have to use an approach that is suitable for you. Thanks for taking the job upon yourself to assign the ratings in the first place Smile

Every now and then I will post my suggestion(s) here if I completely disagree hehe.

P.E.R.N · Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 21:49 Post subject:

In fact "I took " the rating job very late lol. And iam not alone to rate Wink

Btw 90 per cents of your last common advice with Pawel made adjusted them maps' ratings (still some maps Iam hesitating/disagree and ofc it is them which will be noticabled as usual...)

`Chr1st-BLS · Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 22:20 Post subject:

Thank you dear sir!

RoelerCoaster · Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 22:35 Post subject:

I also do ratings when I can, It is just that I haven't touched BT from august to the end of december, so I have to get into it (and get a bit of a feeling for it) again before I make any drastic changes Smile

.

`Chr1st-BLS · Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:10 Post subject:

Hehehe, I remember re-capping that map as well, because my initial time was way too shameful Wink

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