| Comments |
|---|
 ~)BD(~Lorgic
USER: LORGIC
 Rampage |  Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 at 16:21 | |
| | With medic on this one. Criticism is good when it's defined well. this is crap or this is good is not helpfull to anyone. Explaining what is good and what isn't can help someone. But i don't know what the urge is to release stuff. if you ain't completely satisfied with the map you have made. because you are still in the fast that you do not have enough knowledge to create some decent stuff. Just make it. leave it.. build new stuff. or show it to some people to get some feedback .. there is no need to release it as long as you get some feedback. Just release something till you know that you are compeletely satisfied with what you made. |
|
 |
 RoelerCoaster
USER: MMI
 i4Games Trustee | | Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 at 16:15 | |
| | The "6 year old has more imagination" is sarcasm aimed towards mappers who brought out mulitple maps (like atleast five) but did not improve |
5 maps in my case...I wanted to improve, but it didn't work out that time. Apparently that 1/2 year stop I took after my last 'crap'map changed a lot... |
|
|
 [i4g]Medic
USER: MEDIC
 i4Games Head Admin | | Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 at 14:58 | |
| | Kraken wrote: Futher more players who have little or no mapping abilty shud asked to keep there comments to themselves since they have no clue about the amount of work that goes into creating a map. |
-1
Maps are made for players to play them. So the minimum to do is to listen to what they think of your map. It's the most important feedback you can have. They don't need to know how much time you spend on this or this, or how the map works technically. They just tell you their feeling about the map and how well it plays. And then it's up to you to know how to improve what needs to be improved.
I once read someone complaining that people giving feedback were not offering a solution to the problems or bugs in his map. Well the point is that not all have the knowledge to offer a solution. That does not mean you have to ignore that kind of feedback. It's your job to figure out a solution.
I used to develop a software... And if I had to ignore the feedback from simple non-developer users, then I'd have got none. Instead, I listened to all the criticisms and feedback and tried to come up with solutions all by myself.
While comments like "I like it" or "it's crap" are not constructive I agree, they at least give a little clue of what people think. And when someone says that a mover is buggy or something, it's up to the mapper to know how to fix it. |
|
|
 KaPLaN
USER: KAPLAN
Killing spree | | Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 at 14:18 | |
| Generally maps being in cup does not mean anything. I'll take example of CTF cup. There was this 2on2 cup with a map called CTF-FME. It was ugly ( even worse then a beginning mapper ), boring and poorly designed, but it was in the maplist of the cup.
The "6 year old has more imagination" is sarcasm aimed towards mappers who brought out mulitple maps (like atleast five) but did not improve or did not wanted to improve. So if you only made like one or two maps, you should not be offended cause two maps is nothing to gain enough expirience from.
| Kraken wrote: Futher more players who have little or no mapping abilty shud asked to keep there comments to themselves since they have no clue about the amount of work that goes into creating a map. |
+1 |
|
|
RoelerCoaster
USER: MMI
i4Games Trustee | | Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:45 | |
| | As The Old Saying Goes ------> If At First You Dont Succeed, Try, Try, Try Again |
Idd. My first maps (the maps before BT-(MMI)Jump) did deffinately NOT succeed, I was even claimed to be the worst mapper ever. But, some appear to like my maps and even my very first maps was in a CB cup, I duno why.
I tried again and again, and I think my maps turn out quite well.
Something else I disagree with is the banner in the map that says: "A six years old has more imagination." Well, I started mapping when I was 12, and my first map was even more crap than this one: some floating platforms. The thing with me was that I just learnt mapping and I was very satisfied of what I could create. You are kind of proud of yourself. And as I mentioned before, it was in a CB cup, so apparently it was good enough.
I just got better and better and you learn more things and everything looks nicer and is more original. Some mappers start of good with a first map that looks nice and is original, while others, like me, start of 'wrong'. But all get better and better over time.
There will always maps be that some people think is crap, while others linke it, it's just a matter of taste and taste is not something to argue about.
Just my opinion
Roel |
|
|
 ]MeRc[Kraken
USER: KRAKEN
Godlike! | | Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:09 | |
| I have to agree with Ghost on this one. Ive been mapping for a while now and every map i do release gets better as my skills and knowledge increses. However i beleive comments towards a persons mapping abilty or style and theme of map is unhelpful therefor discouraging the mapper from producing decent maps in the future. Futher more players who have little or no mapping abilty shud asked to keep there comments to themselves since they have no clue about the amount of work that goes into creating a map.
As for BT dieing well it will happend sooner or later however this game has been running for 8 years and im sure it will continue on for a long while yet, so please players dont get disheartened with the some maps that are released, later on they may supprise you. As an example ill use myself i started with a very crude small 7 Box CTF map with no deco very basic lighting. But everyone loved the gameplay due to its play count does that mean it is a crap map....? My latest release CTF-(Kraken)Forgotten i dont usually produce BT maps but i did it to add my flavour to the MOD i learned from my first and created a half decent rush map that people liked. The people who flame mappers works shud really try it.
As The Old Saying Goes ------> If At First You Dont Succeed, Try, Try, Try Again |
|
|
[i4g]CouilleNoire
USER: COUILLENOIRE
 i4Games Admin | | Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 at 22:23 | |
| No need to create a jury jaakie.
We are going to make special filter lists in the map vote with player's choice, admin's choice, and so on.
It's been on the planning stack for a while now. |
|
|
 jaakie
USER: JAAKIE
Rampage | | Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 at 19:58 | |
| I think the best way to increase the overall quality of maps on i4g is the following :
create some kind of honest jury who either approve or dissaprove submitted maps. If the map is approved then fine, if not the jury will give supportive feedback on the reasons why ( with in the backmind to help the mapper get his maps in a decent state to get uploaded on the server ) Of course the image of this jury is very important, the feedback needs to be respectful, honest and supporting at all times.
It will be a lot more rewarding to get a spot on the maplist. |
|
|
 }ElitE{Scorp!o
USER: 5C0RP10
Unstoppable | | Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 at 19:14 | |
| Chupa - I do agree with that. I think there should be some limit to how crap a map can be before it's uploaded; there's about a thousand maps now and if short, thoughtless maps keep getting uploaded, the number of maps is going to get higher and higher but players are going to get bored and annoyed.
With the amount of maps that are on the server at the moment, players can go without a new map for a week or so quite happily. I would rather wait a little longer for good maps than be bombarded by shitty ones!
I'm not saying that bad maps should be completely rejected - I'm just saying that they should be improved (by the mapper) if they don't meet the standards ALREADY in place in the Map Checklist in the forum. For example, how many maps don't have light coming from actual Lights??! There's a lot of them, and I thought that it was a requirement for this to be done! Little things like this can really change peoples opinion on a map. After both the mapper and the map uploader is happy with the map, it can be uploaded.
This could help to seriously improve the quality of maps sent in, because in the end it's quality not quantity that matters. If people feel that there is a reason to create good maps, I think they will be able to rise to the challenge.
In the end - mappers - BE ORIGINAL and you have a great headstart already! |
|
|
 Chupacabra
USER: CHUPACABRA
Player | | Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:42 | |
| | Everyone is free to make whatever map they want, but its the admins that decide what maps to put on their server... And kaplansjungle is a great map!! Just like the other 10 oldies:P |
|
|
 GhOsT
USER: GHOST
i4Games Admin | | Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 at 23:00 | |
| | When I launched firstly BunnyTrack alot of people called it crap, boring, annoying, useless, waste of time. |
That's human  when something is new they always whine ect. The same persons that did that plays and loves BT now 
And before you say it, a new map is also new One map is a tiny tiny part of a mod Kaplan talked about the BT mod, not me.
I'm talking about map comments now or even some years ago, not talking about the beginning/making of BT.
Going on for some time :/ but seen it happen more recently :/ maybe it's a bad habit that needs to go out of people's systems, but we can help ofc, get rid of the ability to write or even play for some time, shame it has to happen :/ . |
|
|
~)BD(~Lorgic
USER: LORGIC
Rampage | | Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 at 17:58 | |
| | Even if kaplan made a mistake in kaplans jungle. kaplansjungle was and is still a good effort where he has put effort in the obstacles and in the theme. That's a huge difference. u name 1 mistake in his map whilst other maps have countless mistakes and get away with it. I know beginning mappers make mistakes and i have no problem with that. and if some things don't work good well that's a bit shitteh but if the intention was to make an original map or a good one, that's good enough. if a few more mappers had a sort a like first map as kaplan the maplist would be a lot more attractive. he used the max of his at that time minimal skills. through time he got a really good mapper. but he doesn't have to be ashamed of his first effort. that is the case for most good mappers though. K'rools jungle isn't best map around but a good effort. Poseidons maps are good enough for a reasonable map. Null's first map wasn't his best but still pretty good. and can't name a lot of mappers who's first map was really crappy and is now one of the best. prolly forgetting a few exceptions but still. There is always a difference in effort and no effort see able. beginning mappers can't run away from that. and there are several maps that have minimal effort in that maplist i can tell you. |
|
|
KaPLaN
USER: KAPLAN
Killing spree | | Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 at 17:32 | |
| Mistake ? I actually multiple times edited kaplansjungle and spacebunnies on peoples request. That is not a mistake, that is listening to the community.
And you still did not answered my question and yet evading the point. |
|
|
[i4g]CouilleNoire
USER: COUILLENOIRE
i4Games Admin | | Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 at 17:04 | |
| I said I reviewed 1000 maps, where do you see I said they are lame?
On the other hand I stressed out you did the mistakes in the past you won't let others do today. |
|
|
KaPLaN
USER: KAPLAN
Killing spree | | Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 at 17:00 | |
| | No the point is why are you feeling offended anyway? And also why do you open that can of worms by inmediately attacking directly my own maps. Don't go there please cause it is useless. And you know why. And also I thought you said my description was only 1% of the maps, now you are stating there are 1000 lame maps out there. Way to go contradicting yourself. |
|
|
[i4g]CouilleNoire
USER: COUILLENOIRE
i4Games Admin | | Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 at 14:50 | |
|
Though like few people said here, I should have made this map more annoying cause right now it is indeed bit rush-alike. I should have added lifts or moving platforms with extreme slow moving speed and such.
|
I really don't get you.
Are you trying to make the lamest map ever with things I myself maybe saw in once in a map over the 1000 I have reviewed?
If you do that, don't forget to add your extremely lame and useless dodge in the original KaplansJungle ... |
|
|
KaPLaN
USER: KAPLAN
Killing spree | | Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:44 | |
| You still evaded my point CN.
@ sc0rp!o, UT3 has nothing on UT =p. The idea was to extend BT's boundaries by developing it also for UT3. Wider reach is perhaps more popularity for the original ones. But since the dodgeissue is still not solved, the whole thing is still on halt.
@ Ghost, if a mapper quits because of bad comments on his/her map then he/she should not even touch the unrealeditor. I had plenty of bad comments on my first map aswell. When I launched firstly BunnyTrack alot of people called it crap, boring, annoying, useless, waste of time. Did I backed off? No, I continued spamming the server IP cause there were some people who liked it. I don't know how it is called in english but in dutch we say: "De aanhouder wint".
Though like few people said here, I should have made this map more annoying cause right now it is indeed bit rush-alike. I should have added lifts or moving platforms with extreme slow moving speed and such. But like I explained in the readme, I got so sick of it that I didn't wanted to continue any longer. I was hoping the messages would be enough. |
|
|
~)BD(~Lorgic
USER: LORGIC
Rampage | | Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:33 | |
| @scorp a good map isn't made in one week for anyone
Bad maps don't get bad critics at this section often really. And when they do they should learn from there mistakes. Good maps get discussed a lot more it seems. if a good mapper makes 1 mistake in a map it's BLABLABLA. and when they are uncountable in another people tend to say. nice effort nice... It's not fair to the mappers who putted a lot of effort in it aswell. i don't mind criticisment when somebody just did a bad job with the knowledge he or she got. i do when somebody just did the best he/she got. at some maps you can just see. that even with minimal ued knowledge a lot more could have been reached in gameplay. And if people have questions i believe this is a pretty open community full of mappers who are willing to help. |
|
|
}ElitE{Scorp!o
USER: 5C0RP10
Unstoppable | | Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:55 | |
| BT will keep going for a while yet - UT3 just came out and I don't see many players quitting UT99
It would be nice to see some more effort being put into maps, but I think BT has evolved a bit since it was created and rushing is a large part of it... making a map rushable is in some ways as important as making it fun/artistic! But each player will have a different idea of what is fun, so the majority are usually satisfied by BT in general.
@jaakie, indeed UEd is difficult to learn. I will try to make a map this summer, but it's so complicated >.< I have high standards of myself, so it would take weeks to make... I kinda don't even want to start! |
|
|
GhOsT
USER: GHOST
i4Games Admin | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 23:19 | |
| You got it all wrong You know who/what can kills BT?
It's the players with their unneeded comments like (ingame and in de maps section); 'this is gay' 'what a ^&$#@^map' 'why the *#$%&^$* did you vote this crap' 'who made this $&**&%* map?' 'what a gay dodge' 'this map sux' Do i need to say more? hope not
Do you think this will sparkle the mapper and make a better map? Nah he/she will think #&*%$ you i quit ! And so no maps no BT :/
Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with GOOD criticism, the other stuff that's just bs and even dumb.
Imagine hitting your head against a wall, you say for instance, '&*$^* wall' (or whatever), now also write it down on a piece of paper, you don't do that? it's stupid? Then why the hell do you do it when you fail at a dodge?
I think lots of people don't even care if the map is good or bad, they just want to cap it (Like Jaakie said, it's on the map to cap list) or rush it for the rec.
As long as there are mappers BT will stay alive, different players/mappers different taste. You can't please all players with one map. Some will like your style and some don't, that even goes for what you call 'bad' maps. It's proven in your map Kaplan as you say it is bad, people even like it.
I'm a bit confused, you don't like these kind of maps but you make one yourself, why not make a forum topic about it, would have saved you some time |
|
|
| [ Page 1 ] [ Page 2 ] [ Page 3 ] [ Page 4 ] [ Page 5 ] |
Download
90 comments
BunnyTrack