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 [i4g]CouilleNoire
USER: COUILLENOIRE
 i4Games Admin |  Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 23:08 | |
| Of course and that's exactly the case kman.
Maps like Kaplan descibes are not numerous.
On the other hand, saying arbitrarily that one map is better than another because of sunjective reasons or elitism will discourage mappers. |
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 delete_my_account
USER: K_BUNNY
 Dominating | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 22:43 | |
| well that's not true...if every BT map ever was like this, speaking for myself, i wouldnt play bt, it's OK once in a while, as i have maps like krool maps, anghellic maps to play sometimes which literally restore my faith in BT fun, but i dont think a BT map needs to be X and Y to be fun, alot of stuff works...variation ftw  |
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[i4g]CouilleNoire
USER: COUILLENOIRE
i4Games Admin | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 22:26 | |
| You don't keep a gametype alive by releasing maps apart when it's BT because BT does not need anything else than a start, a middle and a end filled with any stuff in between to play with.
BT is NOTHING else.
Now wether you fill it well or not will NOT make BT die.
As you see, I thought about it. |
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 KaPLaN
USER: KAPLAN
Killing spree | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 20:48 | |
| CN You are making statements without any supportive arguments. Why bother making CTF maps with good layout when you can make a huge empty space, 2 flags and bunch of 5cm walls to avoid distant shooting. Why bother making a DM map with a layout when you can make a square arena with a few walls. Let us all release 5000 of these type of maps, I am sure DM CTF DOM etc will be brought back to life.
You don't keep a gametype alive by just releasing maps. Maps mean nothing on its own without players. A crappy map like mine will be soon forgotten after a while cause people will be arsed to break the record after a while. Well it proberly wont that easy because of the messages but it is the though that counts.
Think about it. |
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[i4g]CouilleNoire
USER: COUILLENOIRE
i4Games Admin | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 19:53 | |
| | I think everybody is willing BT to live and that's the main point, whatever the opinions. |
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 aniani
USER: ANIANI
Rampage | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 19:30 | |
| imo the main reason 'crappy' maps are voted is because the majority of maps realeased recently have been of this style. If there were more new maps which really were good and original, they would get played way more than others. Therefore, why spend time producing a map like this, when you could produce a 'decent' map. Seems a bit like reverse thinking. (I do agree with the message tho btw  )
Just a thought as well... if you wanted to prevent these maps from being played so regularly, surely something could be added to the mapvote to prevent a map being voted more than once. I know this could become frustrating in some instances, but considering it is a public server everyone has the right to vote and this may be the only way to control it. (Maybe for new maps this could be ignored).
At least this way though it would avoid severe repetition like is sometimes seen.
(I suppose at least this map has sparked discussion, which is a good thing so well done for that at least)  |
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KaPLaN
USER: KAPLAN
Killing spree | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 19:16 | |
| | Mike: I agree with your message ofcourse, but at the same time i dont think its fair to say that bunnytrack isnt those maps |
I never said that and never will say that. BunnyTrack = BunnyTrack, whereever it is poles as obstacles or plain surface. I just call a map either lame or good. I judge gameplay more than looks. But kinky hit a nail on the head. Being beginner at mapping is no excuse for producing lame maps with lame gameplay. If one puts effort into it, he/she can make his/her map quite enjoyable. |
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 }ElitE{Mike`
USER: DINOMITE
Godlike! | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 18:14 | |
| | at the end of the day, bt is alive right now, i dont see people leaving because of rubbish maps. The fact you see these maps proves its popularity, if better designed maps were more fun for players, would they not be voted more often. Ofcourse we all would rather look at a nice map than an ugly one but noone holds bt, noone says what it should and should not be and naturally the state of maps is what bt apparently wants. If this map is designed to be terrible, is it not suprising to see it voted so often, and rushed so often. I personally admit i like maps like this for rushing, lame or not i find them fun to rush...thats just me. I agree with your message ofcourse, but at the same time i dont think its fair to say that bunnytrack isnt those maps because bunnytrack isnt something confined or copyrighted its a concept which has been adapted away from what you intended with early maps. Respect each mappers map because they do keep bt alive, if people leave because of badly released maps, they should consider their own contributions first |
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 Goner
USER: GONER
Player | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 17:47 | |
| | Half the reason i keep coming and going from UT is the bunny track maps being as Kaplan said. ! Don't quite understand why they get voted. Have much more fun and gameplay on well designed maps imo. Still remember a time when great maps were added on a regular basis...and everyone still voted CTTT ! |
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 synteX
USER: MATTHI-
Unstoppable | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 16:39 | |
| | If you realy want to make it STOPITNOW, you should make an ez version kaplan :E |
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jaakie
USER: JAAKIE
Rampage | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 15:47 | |
| think you could have spread your message in a better and more efficent way. For most people this map is just another one on their 'map to cap' list, and the same goes on with every other map. Crap map or not, noob or not... it exists and a lot of players want as many maps capped as there are out there.
and a lot of these mappers who make theose 'crap' maps, it's just that often they are not aware of it. For them it's aldready pretty satisfying if they managed to make something with a beginning and an end. It's only after that that they can think '"hey what else can i do with this and how far can it get". A lot of new players and mappers are also still very young, and unrealed isn't all that simple as building a skatepark in tonyhawks proskater or something. I think that if you made a map where you made each room consist of two possible clearing methods, one polished/ original and the other one crapstyle with polejumps or so, you'll open a lot more eyes on what can be done in Bt instead of them grabbing to the unoriginal obvious obsticles.
and also now I have to cap this crapmap if I eventually want all maps capped  |
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 Wargon
USER: WARGON
 i4Games Trustee | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 15:02 | |
| | Although I'm afraid the message still won't come across, despite the messages slapping you in the face if you play this, I am completely with Kaplan on this one. I don't feel like an elaborate post, but I'd really love to see some changes in future maps being made. |
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 ~)BD(~Lorgic
USER: LORGIC
Rampage | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 14:21 | |
| a lot of stuff is subjective. but worth a discussion. My opinion is prolly already clear. But i'm with jamess and kaplan. Worst thing is community seems to be full of people who like em :S. Makes you wan't to put less effort in maps these maps. because you won't get extra credit for something really good it seems. I hardly ever play maps like the krool ones, anghellic maps i mostly play those ... 12 minute maps. The excuse of beginning mapper is irrelevant. because even if ur new u can create original stuff with minimal knowledge. if so the looks won't be judged hard. but most of the time there has no effort been put in the thinking of obstacles. simple jumps is not been thought about just putted there not questioned: is this fun or not. first time i mapped it look crap i had some bsp holes. but i do not think i had regular jumps etc. I see sometimes some ugly maps but full with originality. that's good enough for me to start with. Plus it's nicer to map that way i think.
In the end. people just want there name on the list of mappers prolly. no matter what shit they produced. I hope next few people who start maps. will make em original. and do what is in there knowledge at that time. i suggest: test your own map 100 times.. you still like it? it's good enough. |
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 JPMendes
USER: JPMENDES
Dominating | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 13:19 | |
| I still need to play this map.. by the way.. what is this map rating?
0 ? :p |
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[i4g]CouilleNoire
USER: COUILLENOIRE
i4Games Admin | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:53 | |
| | Good maps/Bad maps ... All this is subjective. |
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Horcruxes
USER: COREY
Dominating | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:57 | |
| | OMG KAPLAN, WHAT DID YOU DO!!? |
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KaPLaN
USER: KAPLAN
Killing spree | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:02 | |
| Nah, first room is designed with a thought like that. Though a 500m straight walk would be indeed good.
I made the map layout like this for a reason. Poles might be easy but the intention was to annoy you to go everytime trough them, cause alot of people die over and over at the lava room. Therefor they have to redo the pole part again and again and again. I originally quit BT map building years ago, so I don't know if I will create a serious map out of this one. If I feel like it I will try =|
@ James, well opinions about maps differ. And i4games does not discriminate bad maps and good maps. They put all maps on their server which is in my opinion good. These way people can feedback/critise the maps so the authors can build better maps next time. This is the actual path of learning/building expirience. Each server has its own maplist and community. Some servers only put "good" ( what they think is good ) on them, while others put more maps. |
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 -dsm.JamesS-
USER: JAMESS
Player | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:57 | |
| I'm with Kaplan here, its definately on the 50% side...
Now if you ask me all the newbies are voting these shit maps because they aren't educated and don't know what maps are out there... I think I personally was quite lucky when I started playing BT properly, I joined the right scene, which basically is most BT server except i4g ones...
So lets make a scenario, lets say I am completely new to BT and I stumble on i4g servers... I start playing there and because there are already uneducated people playing there, the only maps being voted are the shit ones... So me being the new kid playing, thinks to myself that this is the standard of BT maps available. Now you can't tell me that shit maps arent voted, because I think 80/90% of the time that I gone to i4g servers its a wank map on, or I joined because its a good map then all the noobs vote a shit one after...
Now the way I found BT was on normal servers where people knew about the decent maps... So when I arrived I had people voting all the decent maps. So as soon as I found i4g servers, I thought, wow these maps suck lol.
So if you ask me this is one way shit maps are killing BT, all potential new players stumble on i4g server, but are met by some pretty shit maps... and think wow this sucks, and go back to their old mod.
JamesS... |
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delete_my_account
USER: K_BUNNY
Dominating | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:56 | |
| well, you needed to make the first rooms harder to grab attention kaplan or perhaps a 500m hallway of just running...
the "poles" and "floating cubes" are easy to say the least, and fun to rush, for me they are good in a map, they require skill..but max dodges..i'm not such a fan
and lol@room after dodges where the "obstacle" doesnt do anything =DDD
plz make a nice map kaplan :]! |
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KaPLaN
USER: KAPLAN
Killing spree | | Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:23 | |
| | No what I describe is deffintly more than 1% of the maps. I would roughly say 50% of the maps. |
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BunnyTrack